Talk:Main Page - Revision history

Ciaran: /* template:title doesn't change the title */ new section

2015-01-06T11:12:43Z

‎template:title doesn't change the title: new section

Ciaran: /* I've converted the links back to template:L */ clearer

2015-01-02T14:11:18Z

‎I've converted the links back to template:L: clearer

Ciaran: /* I've converted the links back to template:L */ shorten slightly

2015-01-02T14:06:08Z

‎I've converted the links back to template:L: shorten slightly

Ciaran: /* I've converted the links back to template:L */ P.S. template:L doesn't work fully for file links. Arguments like "left" and accompanying text get ignored.

2015-01-02T13:57:28Z

‎I've converted the links back to template:L: P.S. template:L doesn't work fully for file links. Arguments like "left" and accompanying text get ignored.

Ciaran: /* I've converted the links back to template:L */ I was going to do that myself, by adding links from the template pages to the documentation, but I can't because those template pages are locked. Is that really necessar

2015-01-02T12:17:29Z

‎I've converted the links back to template:L: I was going to do that myself, by adding links from the template pages to the documentation, but I can't because those template pages are locked. Is that really necessar

Ciaran: /* I've converted the links back to template:L */ new section

2015-01-02T12:09:06Z

‎I've converted the links back to template:L: new section

Ciaran: /* Dev: Doc: .... namespaces are they useful? */ I think MediaWiki's namespaces feature is the wrong tool for this job. Categories are probably enough (or close enough), and they don't cause any unusual behaviour. ~~~~

2014-12-31T18:32:59Z

‎Dev: Doc: .... namespaces are they useful?: I think MediaWiki's namespaces feature is the wrong tool for this job. Categories are probably enough (or close enough), and they don't cause any unusual behaviour. ~~~~

Ciaran: /* Can template:title and template:category be deprecated? */ ::I understand now the purpose of template:title but I don't understand the purpose of template:category (or template:L). ~~~~

2014-12-31T17:37:14Z

‎Can template:title and template:category be deprecated?: ::I understand now the purpose of template:title but I don't understand the purpose of template:category (or template:L). ~~~~

Ciaran: /* Suggestion: use lower case for page titles */ syntax

2014-12-31T17:25:18Z

‎Suggestion: use lower case for page titles: syntax

Ciaran: I don't understand how template:L helps. And I don't see any explanation on Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax. People trying to understand this strange link syntax will go to template:L, so there should be documentation there, or a link to docu

2014-12-31T17:23:22Z

I don't understand how template:L helps. And I don't see any explanation on Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax. People trying to understand this strange link syntax will go to template:L, so there should be documentation there, or a link to docu

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:12, 6 January 2015
Line 221:		Line 221:

	. [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 13:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)		. [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 13:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
		+
		+	== template:title doesn't change the title ==
		+
		+	If I understand correctly, [[template:title]] should change the title displayed at the top of the page, but [[User Documentation/fr]] has <nowiki>{{Title\|Documentation Utilisateur}}</nowiki> at the top and yet the title displayed at the top of the page is "Glossaire".
		+
		+	I made some test pages and found the same problem:
		+
		+	{\| style="border:1px solid silver;"
		+	\|- style="background-color:#eee;"
		+	! style="border:1px solid silver;" \| page
		+	! style="border:1px solid silver;" \| template:title
		+	! style="border:1px solid silver;" \| title displayed
		+	\|-
		+	\| [[User:Ciaran/sandbox]] \|\| <nowiki>{{Title\|sandbox}}</nowiki> \|\| User:Ciaran/sandbox
		+	\|-
		+	\| [[User:Ciaran/test2/fr]] \|\| <nowiki>{{title\|essai}}</nowiki> \|\| User:Ciaran/test2/fr
		+	\|-
		+	\| [[User:Ciaran/test2]] \|\| <nowiki>{{title\|test2}}</nowiki> \|\| User:Ciaran/test2
		+	\|}
		+
		+	I will be busy for the next while, so I probably won't leave any more comments. I hope my bug reports and suggestions were useful. [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 11:12, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

@@ Line 213: / Line 213: @@
 Output:
-* [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19989#Introduction Here it is with template:L] - note that it's not on the left and the text isn't displayed)
+* [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19989#Introduction Here it is with template:L] - note that it's not on the left and the text isn't displayed
 * [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19953#Introduction Here it is with normal MediaWiki syntax]
-If you're going to fix this by changing template:L, then I won't change those pages.  Or if template:L won't be changed, then I'll change those pages back to using normal MediaWiki link syntax.  (And [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Links|the documentation]] should be updated to tell people not to use template:L for internal file links.) [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 13:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
+This can be fixed by either:

@@ Line 200: / Line 200: @@
 It's your wiki, so I'll go with your decision, but I think this is shooting yourself in the foot if you want to attract new wiki contributors.
-I can understand using [[template:title]].  It's only used once per page, and it only has to be written by the first person who makes the page, so it's almost invisible to other people editing the wiki. Its purpose is to remind translators to translate the title.  Changing a page's title is not normal, so translators might need to be reminded to do this.
+I can understand using [[template:title]].  It's only used once per page, and it only has to be written by the first person who makes the page, so it's almost invisible to other people editing the wiki.   Changing a page's title is not normal, so translators might need to be reminded to do this.
 [[Template:L]] is different because some pages use it dozens of times, and it is mixed into the page's content, so anyone who edits the page might have to use template:L, so they see this meta-syntax instead of normal MediaWiki syntax.  This might make new contributors less likely to contribute.  And, unlike [[template:title]], I can't see any good reason for template:L.
@@ Line 212: / Line 212: @@
 <nowiki>{{l|File:Track-Curve-tutorial-Follow-bline.gif|frame|left|Extract of Follow-bline as animated gif / 3s - 210ko / ffmpeg -i + gimp resize/export}}</nowiki>
-Gives:
+Output:
-* [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19989#Introduction Here it is with template:L - note that it's not on the left and the text isn't displayed)]
+* [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19989#Introduction Here it is with template:L] - note that it's not on the left and the text isn't displayed)
-−
-But:
-−
 * [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19953#Introduction Here it is with normal MediaWiki syntax]
-If you're going to fix this by changing template:L, then I'll leave the pages as-is.  Or if template:L shouldn't be used for file links, then I'll change them back to using normal MediaWiki link syntax.  (And [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Links|the documentation]] should be updated to tell people not to use template:L for file links.) [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 13:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
+If you're going to fix this by changing template:L, then I won't change those pages.  Or if template:L won't be changed, then I'll change those pages back to using normal MediaWiki link syntax.  (And [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Links|the documentation]] should be updated to tell people not to use template:L for internal file links.) [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 13:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:57, 2 January 2015
Line 207:		Line 207:

	I was going to do that myself, by adding links from the template pages to the [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax\|documentation]], but I can't because those template pages are locked. Is there a real reason for them to be locked? Have spambots or vandals ever abused your templates? [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 12:09, 2 January 2015 (UTC)		I was going to do that myself, by adding links from the template pages to the [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax\|documentation]], but I can't because those template pages are locked. Is there a real reason for them to be locked? Have spambots or vandals ever abused your templates? [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 12:09, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
		+
		+	P.S. [[template:L]] doesn't work fully for file links. Arguments like "left" and accompanying text get ignored. For example:
		+
		+	<nowiki>{{l\|File:Track-Curve-tutorial-Follow-bline.gif\|frame\|left\|Extract of Follow-bline as animated gif / 3s - 210ko / ffmpeg -i + gimp resize/export}}</nowiki>
		+
		+	Gives:
		+	* [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19989#Introduction Here it is with template:L - note that it's not on the left and the text isn't displayed)]
		+
		+	But:
		+
		+	* [http://wiki.synfig.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracking_Curves&oldid=19953#Introduction Here it is with normal MediaWiki syntax]
		+
		+	If you're going to fix this by changing template:L, then I'll leave the pages as-is. Or if template:L shouldn't be used for file links, then I'll change them back to using normal MediaWiki link syntax. (And [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Links\|the documentation]] should be updated to tell people not to use template:L for file links.) [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 13:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@@ Line 196: / Line 196: @@
 == I've converted the links back to [[template:L]] ==
-For the pages that I edited, I've gone back and converted all the normal links to template:L links.
+For the pages that I edited, I've gone back now and converted all the normal links to template:L links.
-It's your wiki, so I'll go with your decision, but I think this is shooting yourself in the foot.
+It's your wiki, so I'll go with your decision, but I think this is shooting yourself in the foot if you want to attract new wiki contributors.
 I can understand using [[template:title]].  It's only used once per page, and it only has to be written by the first person who makes the page, so it's almost invisible to other people editing the wiki. Its purpose is to remind translators to translate the title.  Changing a page's title is not normal, so translators might need to be reminded to do this.
@@ Line 204: / Line 204: @@
 [[Template:L]] is different because some pages use it dozens of times, and it is mixed into the page's content, so anyone who edits the page might have to use template:L, so they see this meta-syntax instead of normal MediaWiki syntax.  This might make new contributors less likely to contribute.  And, unlike [[template:title]], I can't see any good reason for template:L.
-Other suggestion: if you are going to replace MediaWiki syntax with your own custom meta-syntax, then it should be documented somewhere that new contributors will see. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 12:09, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
+Other suggestion: if you are going to replace MediaWiki syntax with your own custom meta-syntax, then it should be documented somewhere that new contributors will see.

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:09, 2 January 2015
Line 193:		Line 193:

	::Thanks for clarifying. I've updated the intro of those three pages now. [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 09:17, 31 December 2014 (UTC)		::Thanks for clarifying. I've updated the intro of those three pages now. [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 09:17, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	== I've converted the links back to [[template:L]] ==
		+
		+	For the pages that I edited, I've gone back and converted all the normal links to template:L links.
		+
		+	It's your wiki, so I'll go with your decision, but I think this is shooting yourself in the foot.
		+
		+	I can understand using [[template:title]]. It's only used once per page, and it only has to be written by the first person who makes the page, so it's almost invisible to other people editing the wiki. Its purpose is to remind translators to translate the title. Changing a page's title is not normal, so translators might need to be reminded to do this.
		+
		+	[[Template:L]] is different because some pages use it dozens of times, and it is mixed into the page's content, so anyone who edits the page might have to use template:L, so they see this meta-syntax instead of normal MediaWiki syntax. This might make new contributors less likely to contribute. And, unlike [[template:title]], I can't see any good reason for template:L.
		+
		+	Other suggestion: if you are going to replace MediaWiki syntax with your own custom meta-syntax, then it should be documented somewhere that new contributors will see. [[User:Ciaran\|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran\|talk]]) 12:09, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@@ Line 153: / Line 153: @@
 ::::I can see theoretical justifications for separating the pages, but the namespaces feature of MediaWiki is not a good way to do this.  The solution is worse than the problem.  (Maybe there is no good way to do this using MediaWiki.) [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 10:21, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 ::::: The "Doc", "Dev" and other namespaces are intended to logicaly separate the pages. You are welcome to read this page about the structure - [[Meta:Wiki_Structure]]. The search problem you mentioned is an issue, that could be fixed by modifying the MediaWiki behaviour. I was planning to do that, but unfortunaely my time is limited, and I haven't ben able to dig into that yet. you are welcome to submit an issue about that to the special section of [http://www.synfig.org/issues/thebuggenie/synfig/issues/new/issuetype/websiteissue our bugtracker]. --[[User:Zelgadis|Zelgadis]] ([[User talk:Zelgadis|talk]]) 16:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 == Can [[template:title]] and [[template:category]] be deprecated? ==

@@ Line 171: / Line 171: @@
 I'm trying to get rid of unusual syntax so that people familiar with other MediaWiki wikis can contribute to wiki.synfig.org without having to try to understand the unusual syntax. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 06:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
-:: Please read this page about Title template - [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Title_template]]. "Category" template provides support for localization mechanism as well. --[[User:Zelgadis|Zelgadis]] ([[User talk:Zelgadis|talk]]) 16:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
+:Please read this page about Title template - [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Title_template]]. "Category" template provides support for localization mechanism as well. --[[User:Zelgadis|Zelgadis]] ([[User talk:Zelgadis|talk]]) 16:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 == Are tracking a b-line and following a curve functionally the same thing? ==

@@ Line 140: / Line 140: @@
 ::I understand how [[template:title]] helps with localisation but I don't understand how [[template:L]] helps.  And I don't see any explanation on [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax]].  People trying to understand this strange link syntax will go to [[template:L]], so there should be documentation there, or a link to documentation. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 17:23, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 :P.S. About the capitalization. Please keep the titles capitalized, because (in my opinion) "new layer defaults" looks worse, comparing to "New Layer Defaults" when displayed in the titles list.
-::That would be fixed by your [[template:title]].  The page could be "new layer defaults" and at the top of the page could be {{title|New Layer Defaults}}. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 17:23, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
+::That would be fixed by your [[template:title]].  The page could be "new layer defaults" and at the top of the page could be <nowiki>{{title|New Layer Defaults}}</nowiki>. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 17:23, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 === Dev: Doc: .... namespaces are they useful? ===

@@ Line 137: / Line 137: @@
 (Another inconvenience is that a lot of pages use [[template:L]] for links (<nowiki>{{l|Cow|cow}}</nowiki> instead of the normal <nowiki>[[cow]]</nowiki>), so I'm currently replacing these links with normal links.  My goal is to remove anormalities and needless complexity from the wiki in the hope of making it easier for people to contribute.)  [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 23:59, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
-* --[[User:Zelgadis|Zelgadis]] ([[User talk:Zelgadis|talk]]) 16:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC) Hello, Ciaran. IMy name is Konstantin Dmitriev, I am an administrator of Synfig Wiki. Please do not replace [[template:L]] and <nowiki>{{l|Cow|cow}}</nowiki> notation - they have a special purpose. As you probably noticed, this wiki have a support of localization to multiple languages. The special "L" template makes it possible to have language pages automatically display they titles in proper language. All those "anomalies" are documented at this page - [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax]]. THe special templates, like "L", "Title" and others make the localization mechanic work on this wiki. In the future we plan to migrate to other mechanism (powered by "Transifex:Live") and then we will be able to switch back to "regular" notations and remove the special templates. But until then, please follow the guides.
+:--[[User:Zelgadis|Zelgadis]] ([[User talk:Zelgadis|talk]]) 16:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC) Hello, Ciaran. IMy name is Konstantin Dmitriev, I am an administrator of Synfig Wiki. Please do not replace [[template:L]] and <nowiki>{{l|Cow|cow}}</nowiki> notation - they have a special purpose. As you probably noticed, this wiki have a support of localization to multiple languages. The special "L" template makes it possible to have language pages automatically display they titles in proper language. All those "anomalies" are documented at this page - [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax]]. THe special templates, like "L", "Title" and others make the localization mechanic work on this wiki. In the future we plan to migrate to other mechanism (powered by "Transifex:Live") and then we will be able to switch back to "regular" notations and remove the special templates. But until then, please follow the guides.
-* P.S. About the capitalization. Please keep the titles capitalized, because (in my opinion) "new layer defaults" looks worse, comparing to "New Layer Defaults" when displayed in the titles list.
+::I understand how [[template:title]] helps with localisation but I don't understand how [[template:L]] helps.  And I don't see any explanation on [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax]].  People trying to understand this strange link syntax will go to [[template:L]], so there should be documentation there, or a link to documentation. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 17:23, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 === Dev: Doc: .... namespaces are they useful? ===
@@ Line 169: / Line 171: @@
 I'm trying to get rid of unusual syntax so that people familiar with other MediaWiki wikis can contribute to wiki.synfig.org without having to try to understand the unusual syntax. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 06:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
-:Please read this page about Title template - [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Title_template]]. "Category" template provides support for localization mechanism as well. --[[User:Zelgadis|Zelgadis]] ([[User talk:Zelgadis|talk]]) 16:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
+:: Please read this page about Title template - [[Meta:Template_Style_And_Syntax#Title_template]]. "Category" template provides support for localization mechanism as well. --[[User:Zelgadis|Zelgadis]] ([[User talk:Zelgadis|talk]]) 16:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
-−
-::Ok, but that should be documented on [[template:title]].  That's where new wiki contributors will look for documentation about that template. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 17:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 == Are tracking a b-line and following a curve functionally the same thing? ==